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  1. #61
    Usuario Foroaviones
    05 sep, 07
    También tiene su aquel que les autoricen a 6000ft en una zona con montañas de 7000ft...
    Última edición por overspeed; 10/05/2012 a las 09:21

  2. #62
    Usuario Foroaviones
    06 jun, 07
    Leo este artículo en el NYTimes, y me deja un poco inquieto la parte que os pongo en rojo. Alguno podrá decir que es publicidad anti-rusa, pero lo cierto es que el periodista dice lo que publicó la prensa rusa...

    The wreckage of a demonstration airplane for a Russian-made passenger jet that vanished on Wednesday during a 50-minute flight over
    was found on Thursday on the side of a mountain volcano shrouded in mist.Related

    Connect With Us on Twitter

    Follow@nytimesworldfor international breaking news and headlines.
    Twitter List: Reporters and Editors

    Benoit Tessier/Reuters

    A Sukhoi Superjet 100 taking part in the 48th Paris Air Show on June 17, 2009. A Russian Sukhoi plane with 50 people on board went missing over Indonesia on Wednesday.

    The New York Times

    An official said there were no signs of survivors in the wreckage of the Sukhoi Superjet 100.

    Mast Irham/European Pressphoto Agency

    A relative of one of the passengers on board the Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft was comforted after checking the passenger list at Halim Perdanakusuma Airport in Jakarta, Indonesia, on Wednesday.

    There were no signs of survivors among the 50 people, including crew members, journalists and airline representatives, aboard the plane, the Sukhoi Superjet 100, a spokesman for Indonesia’s Search and Rescue National Agency told The Associated Press.
    In a televised address on Thursday, the Indonesian president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, said investigators were on their way to the site of the crash.
    “We don’t know what has happened, so rescue efforts for survivors is the priority,” he said.
    Around 750 search and rescue personnel have been dispatched to the scene to search for survivors, though the team is likely to take several hours to reach the location given the steep slope of the mountain and rugged terrain on the slopes of Salak Mountain on the island of Java.
    The fate of the jetliner — the first new model to be produced in Russia since the end of the Soviet Union — was a crushing blow to a national aerospace industry eager for revival.
    The Superjet took off from Halim Perdanakusuma Airport in the Indonesian capital Jakarta on Wednesday afternoon for its second demonstration flight of the day. It disappeared from radar screens and lost contact with ground controllers about 20 minutes later after requesting permission to descend to 6,000 feet from 10,000 feet over the mountainous terrain of West Java.
    A resident near Mount Salak, named Juanda, said he heard the sound of a rumbling engine on Wednesday and saw a plane that seemed to veering to one side. “Salak Mountain was not visible because a lot of dark fog,” he told local media.
    The mountain frequently experiences bad weather and heavy fog.
    This prevented search parties from locating the plane on Wednesday. When the weather cleared on Thursday, search helicopters spotted the wreckage on the side of a cliff about 5,000 feet up Mount Salak, Maj. Ali Umri Lubis of the Indonesian Air Force told MetroTV.
    The Superjet carried much of Russia’s hope for reinvigorating an industry with a storied history of accomplishment. Its loss will deepen the malaise in an industry whose safety problems, breakdowns and lethal crashes have made it hard to sell planes outside the former Soviet Union, Iran, Cuba and parts of Africa.
    It also casts a pall over a week of celebrations of Vladimir V. Putin’s third inauguration as president. The loss occurred just as Russia’s leaders were overseeing the lavish yearly display of military might to commemorate Victory Day, the anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany.
    The Superjet 100 was produced by the government-controlled Sukhoi company, which is far better known for its fighter planes. Senior officials from Russia’s trade ministry and aviation safety agency and Sukhoi’s top managers left Moscow for Indonesia on Wednesday afternoon, the company announced.
    “They have to clear this up very, very fast in terms of causes,” said Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst at the Teal Group consultancy in Fairfax, Va. “This plane had given the Russians hope that they could resurrect some of what they once had.”
    At $31.7 million, the Superjet’s price was one-third cheaper than comparable short-hop jets produced in Canada, and the company had said it hoped to sell 1,000 over the next two decades.
    Last week, Sukhoi began a six-nation road show of presentations to Asian airline executives and had already made stops in Myanmar, Pakistan and Kazakhstan. Wednesday’s flight in Indonesia was to have been followed by visits to Laos and Vietnam. Sergei Dolya, a photographer with the tour who was not on the flight, posted images of flight attendants pouring Champagne and of himself dressed as Neptune, with a beard and trident, greeting passengers.
    Superjet said that the aircraft had gone through a preflight check and that a first demonstration flight on Wednesday morning “went without technical problems.” The aircraft did not report any failure before disappearing from radar screens, according to a statement posted online. It said the aircraft had completed 500 flights without any reports of serious technical problems.
    Until a crash inquiry is done, analysts said, Sukhoi will have difficulty marketing the Superjet. “It would be entirely understandable for any potential customer to hold off until it’s determined whether the cause was human error or mechanical failure,” said Sash Tusa of Echelon Research and Advisory in London.
    While it is rare for such a young aircraft to crash, it is not unprecedented — an Airbus 320 crashed during a demonstration flight in 1988, killing three people and injuring 50. Investigators determined that the cause had been pilot error and found no evidence of a malfunction. The A320 went on to be one of the world’s best-selling aircraft models.
    If analysts identify human error as the cause of the plane’s crash, most of the existing 240 Superjet orders will stay on the books, Mr. Tusa said, but “if it turns out there is some kind of major design flaw with the aircraft, those orders aren’t worth the paper they are written on.”
    The Superjet seemed afflicted with troubles from early on.
    The first Superjet to enter commercial service last year with Aeroflot, Russia’s national airline, was grounded because of a breakdown of a meter that detects leaks in pipes that funnel fresh air into the cabin.
    As the Superjet entered production, the Russian television station NTV reported that 70 employees at the manufacturing plant had obtained fake engineering diplomas by bribing a local technical college. Sukhoi said they were not directly involved in assembling the planes.
    Russian jets have had a rough spell recently, making the sales pitch for the Sukhoi Superjet even more difficult. There have been a series of disasters involving Tupolevs, which are made by another division of United Aircraft Corporation, Sukhoi’s parent company.
    Analysts said such crashes involving Soviet-era planes were an unfortunate reminder of the reputational hurdles that Sukhoi faces in persuading airlines — a conservative customer base by nature — to take a chance on a Russian-built plane.

    “One of the strongest barriers to new entrants in aviation is that Airbus and Boeing have such an incredibly long and strong safety record,” said Mr. Tusa, of Echelon Research. “Unfortunately, old Russian aircraft operated by Russian airlines is sometimes a fairly unfortunate combination.”

  3. #63
    Usuario Foroaviones
    06 jun, 07
    Cita Iniciado por overspeed Ver Mensaje
    También tiene su aquel que les autoricen a 6000ft en una zona con montañas de 7000ft...
    Un piloto blogero ha hecho un análisis precisamente en este sentido, muy interesante su lectura

    It is not a good day. Sukhoi Superjet RA97004 disappeared south of Jakarta this afternoon. At the time this article is first published on this blog, it is not yet found. Several friends almost went on the flight, some went to the earlier flight, some cancelled. Lucky I was not invited because otherwise I would have gone on it. Unfortunately, a friend is on that flight, and some others I know was onboard too.

    Earlier, I made the following tweets:
    • "SSJ100 crash site reported found by SAR heli just prior to aborting due to bad weather. No info on survivors. Awaiting official word."
    • "If SSJ crash site is as predicted, it lies JUST outside the MSA 6900 (HLP) or 6000 (AL). 7900ft peak just outside the MSA circle. MORA 11900"
    The first one was received from someone at the crisis center at Halim. It has not been confirmed by the official press release. Further investigation into that lead turned up as the SAR heli pilot thought he saw something but cannot investigate closer due to the need to abort due to bad weather. The air search is abandoned for the day/night. Ground search party has been dispatched involving 30 teams of 20 people each. Mt. Salak is very well trekked by rescuers etc. BUT, it is also a tricky place to navigate overland. Even experienced team with GPS get lost during the day. So expect the night ground search to be painstakingly slow despite their best efforts. The last thing we want is "search the rescuers."

    There are questions, one of them:
    • "Mount Salak is over 7000 feet high, and they were given permission to descend to 6000 feet?"
    There are no information that the ATC granted the request. The aircraft would be handled by Jakarta Approach South/East or Jakarta South Sector (if they planned to go south of the mountain range). Given the time of day, I suspect whichever ATC was handling the flight, are swamped with 07L/R departures to south east from <acronym title="Jakarta - International / Soekarno-Hatta (CGK / WIII), Indonesia" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">CGK</acronym> or handling sequencing for 25L arrivals, as well as low level traffic inbound to Halim airport. 1 lone flight to the south under radar control, would be the highest priority. Their request, might require several calls. It's possible that the crew took their own action.

    And another question in Airliners.net forum topic on this accident:

    For folks like me unfamiliar with Indonesia locations and such - the 'crash' site is apparently about 30-35 nm almost due south of the Jakarta airport... The plane was 30-35 miles from landing - so descending in that manner would be normal. However if the plane was a few miles south of where the pilots thought the plane was located - it could have descended too quickly.

    I've flown around that area a lot in the past. It's nice and scenic in VMC. But between Mt. Salak and Mt. Pangrango, one has to have their wits around and not have a lapse of situational awareness. Some very strange winds are up there, and conditions are unpredictable even in VMC, and in IMC, it's damn awful. I must thank my fortunes to not have to go through the pass between those two mountains anymore these days!

    Taken from 9 yrs ago:

    This is Mt. Pangrango, a higher (almost 9900ft peak) but not as steep as Mt. Salak (7200ft peak). Lots of little valleys to search through. U'd be hard pressed to try and force land a jet and end up in 1 piece there.

    Flying to the south of Jakarta, is dangerous if only armed with a Jepessen Map. No terrain depiction, only the MSA is there. I picked this from a Lido chart:

    As you can see, Mt. Salak and Pangrango are just outside the MSA limit. Note MORA is 11900 and 10300. On the Jepessen, this is not depicted on Halim Airport approach charts, nor on the STAR charts for HLP or <acronym title="Jakarta - International / Soekarno-Hatta (CGK / WIII), Indonesia" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">CGK</acronym>.

    A witness onboard an earlier flight told me that the previous flight was departing and arriving Halim 24. The pilots only had the approach and airport ground charts. Seeing the Nav Displays on the previous flight, it looks like they simply planned to depart, go along R206 airway (R-195 HLM) until about 30NM and turn back.

    If they had reached FL150 as reported, they would have had to descend prior to reaching the 30NM mark. Sounds easy enough. BUT, late afternoon in that area is normally not good for flying. I've seen clouds "collapsing down the side of Mt. Salak and spread across and cover the whole pass towards Pangrango before (I turned back... being in an unpressurized prop twin w/ no WXR). Quite often in the mid afternoon, clouds would cover both mountains, and only reveal Pangrango, and Salak is totally covered... looking like a big cumulus over small area undercast... (I used the term, "Cumulus Granitus" a lot after seeing that).

    If these guys were only armed with Jepp approach, STAR, and enroute charts, a simple "fly out along R206 to 30NM and turn back", would be fine in VMC, but deadly in IMC and bad localized weather. A simple urge to duck under over there is hard to overcome unless you know the terrain there. The crew was unfamiliar with the area. Last time someone crashed into Mt. Salak, it was an air force C-212 on the way back to Halim from the south coast after some remote sensing equipment testing. Been there, also did the same, test remote sensing equipment down the south coast, heading back, huge temptation to simply press, "Direct to" Halim airport on GPS or FMC.

    My crew used to hate me for forcing them to plot a course through the pass on the GPS and Mission console display, added with the instructions "In IMC Do not proceed direct HLM unless west of R-200 HLM and within 20DME HLM. Strict adherence to planned course through the pass in IMC, maintain 6000 above until 20DME. If GPS u/s or unable to maintain 6000, revert to alternative IMC return plan" (which involved a long detour west to avoid terrain over 1hr30 extra on that prop). It wasn't until they went through the pass in IMC did they appreciate the instructions. On a bad day, the pass collects northerly winds like a compressor on the north side, then spews it up the middle and down the sides in an erratic manner. I went through it in IMC once on one of those bad days, I'd rather not go through that again ever. Looking back at it now, even 6000 was probably too low.

    The fact remains, the aircraft disappeared in a remote area albeit very near Jakarta. There has been numerous rumours on where the aircraft is and that it had been found. One, is relatively disgusting, saying that it was found in two pieces and bodies strewn around the place.Disgusting misinformation.

    The area is quite remote. The areas above 3000ft are often covered by cloud in afternoon. And very few aircraft traffic go by there on a given month, let alone in a day! The military from nearby Atang Sanjaya Airbase also don't go down that way often either.

    Let's hope tomorrow morning brings clear weather for the air search to continue and the aircraft be found quickly, survivors treated as soon as possible, and the dead be laid to rest.

    It is not a good day at all!

    UPDATE 1: 2012-05-07 0310UTC.
    Wreckage found, spotted from the air. Ground SAR teams reported less than 1 kilometer from scene according to Detik.com article. Aircraft appears to be relatively intact but need ground teams to assess the extent of damage and seek out survivors inside. This report was made public by Deputy SAR Ops, Hadi L. SAR will try to evacuate survivors and the deceased by air if and when possible.

    The report also contradicts previous rumors of aircraft found split in two and bodies strewn around the place! As I said before: Disgusting misinformation not welcomed anywhere!

    UPDATE 2: 201205-07 0420UTC.
    Pictures of the crash site found. Rest In Peace to All On Board RA-97004.

    It is obvious that the aircraft hit a cliff and that survivability is slim if not impossible. Analysis will come later after I can come to terms with the pictures. Once again, RIP those on board. May God Give Strength To Those They Left Behind.
    GerryAirways: Superjet disappears south of Jakarta: My notes and comments

  4. #64
    Usuario Foroaviones
    15 sep, 08
    Cita Iniciado por Clipper Ver Mensaje
    Me inclino a un choque con la montaña en ese descenso. No sé por qué pero me huelo que van por ahí los tiros.
    Pues me da que has acertado de pleno.

  5. #65
    Pos eso...
    25 ene, 10
    Dios santo, vaya ostiazo!!! D.E.P.

  6. #66
    Usuario Foroaviones
    06 jun, 07
    Lo peor de todo va a ser la recuperación de los restos. Por lo visto esa zona está a 6 horas a pie desde la civilización más próxima, por no hablar de lo escarpado de la montaña. Va a ser una investigación muuuuuuy larga, pero creo que algún ATC va a tener que dar explicaciones.

  7. #67
    Pos eso...
    25 ene, 10
    Cita Iniciado por Clipper Ver Mensaje
    Lo peor de todo va a ser la recuperación de los restos. Por lo visto esa zona está a 6 horas a pie desde la civilización más próxima, por no hablar de lo escarpado de la montaña. Va a ser una investigación muuuuuuy larga, pero creo que algún ATC va a tener que dar explicaciones.
    Si ¿Como es posible que lo autorizasen a bajar tanto? Ademas se la metió contra una pared vertical, la deceleración tuvo que ser bestial, asi que seguramente el trozo mas grande reconocible será un diente o algo asi.

  8. #68
    Usuario Foroaviones
    31 ene, 11

    Descansen en paz.

  9. #69
    Usuario Foroaviones
    14 ago, 11
    Noticia triste desde luego, por muchas partes. La principal sin duda las vidas que iban a bordo, eso siempre es lo más importante.

    Pero sin duda es un gran palo para Sukhoi más tratándose de vuelos de presentación, con este avión parecía que estaban haciendo las cosas bastante bien. Habrá que esperar a que se esclarezca el verdadero motivo del accidente, no se porque pienso que hubo algo más aparte de la autorización de descenso indebida.
    Siempre se agradecen las reputaciones.

  10. #70
    * Banned *
    27 mar, 09
    Joder!! No hay que ser muy prodigioso como para suponer que chocaron con la montaña! Ni de que hayan muerto todos!! Pero uno debe de tener un poquito de etica y educación c omo para estar un poco calladito hasta que se confirme lo peor!!!

    Para aquellos que se alegran del accidente - que sé que os hay - os recuerdo (por si no os sobra con los ejemplos históricos) que los rusos tienen una especial cualidad de trabajar mas y mejor - cuanto peor son las condiciones.

    El comité de investigación ruso abre una causa penal.

    que pena por la gente. las chicas azafatas, los pilotos excepcionales, todas esas vidas...
    joder, no me creo que esta pasando esto



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